tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post8406571465294251367..comments2023-11-03T12:03:01.691-07:00Comments on Surprised by Time: CorcondilleNauplionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10598950480737808706noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post-38902830303506272702016-02-25T06:37:54.127-08:002016-02-25T06:37:54.127-08:00Thank you for writing. The name is in the Morea. ...Thank you for writing. The name is in the Morea. I think I have made it clear that I do not know how or if the names connect. The evidence is lacking. I believe there is a connection: that is another matter. I have seen no evidence to support the Sathas theory.<br />Nauplionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10598950480737808706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post-961139380981102272016-02-25T05:45:41.839-08:002016-02-25T05:45:41.839-08:00Forgive me for commenting on such an ancient post,...Forgive me for commenting on such an ancient post, but I am a bit confused on the different "Corcondille" mentioned here... Are we to presume that these are allusions to some members of the Kladas clan in the Morea for a a century before the revolt? Is there no credit to Sathas' theory that the Kladas' came from Chimarra in Epirus just a generation before?<br /><br />In any case, love your blog.Philopomeonhttps://romaicoikos.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post-18036078505296525112012-03-16T07:49:00.954-07:002012-03-16T07:49:00.954-07:00Yannis, you give another example of taking a castl...Yannis, you give another example of taking a castle by a trick/betrayal. This theme appears so often in the Chrons. and in Greek tradition that I wonder to what extent it is a fundamental topos (Troy) and how we can know if it actually happened in a particular instance. I know nothing about similar literature from France, Italy, etc., so I don't know whether other traditions take castles by tricks. But this is something I would love for someone to tell me about.Nauplionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10598950480737808706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post-44191233024073653122012-03-16T06:26:35.967-07:002012-03-16T06:26:35.967-07:00I am away from home for some time and do not have ...I am away from home for some time and do not have access to my books and notes, including Longnon and Bon, so this will be brief. Yours is the traditionally accepted identification. <br /><br />I am uneasy at calling Corcondille in the Chron. Fr. an archon as we do not really know about the urban "archon" under Frankish rule. Corcondille was "a man of standing" and in business.<br /><br /> I am very interested in the prominence given to eastern Moreote sites in the Chronicles, both in the hands of the Franks, and in the new Byzantine fortifications after their acquisition. Bon does not read the Chron.Fr. closely enough. A historian with whom I discussed my findings is also interested in an eastern St. Georges. <br /><br />Fortunately, the work I am doing does not require an identification or formal decision. There is no surviving physical evidence, east or west, with which to work.<br /><br />DWNauplionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10598950480737808706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3101913167226700484.post-71090598913200039892012-03-14T15:43:23.315-07:002012-03-14T15:43:23.315-07:00Dear Diana
very interesting post.
Throughout th...Dear Diana <br /><br />very interesting post.<br /><br />Throughout the Greek version of the Chronicle of Morea, tha area of Scorta is mentioned always in junction with that of the Barony of Karytaina (roughly). So usually toponyms such as Araklovon, Karytaina, Alfeios, Omplos (tributary river to Alfeios), the castles of Crevecoeur and St Helen are mentioned together with the term Scorta. This is on the western part of Morea, and quite distant from Megali Arahova (assuming M.Arahova is Karies-Kynourias). <br />Now, Arahova is a quite common slavic toponym in Greece which was substituted (i think during the '30s) with the greek equivalent word of Karies (walnut tree).<br /><br />An alternative Karies village may be found somewhat closer to the Scorta area (south-southwest of Karytaina. 37 26 17 N, 22 00 16 W). This Ano-Karies village (950m) which is closε to Lykaion mountain is another candidate and in my opinion a more likely candidate for the M.Arahova of the Chronicle of Morea. It holds a strategic position as a gate to the Scortan mountain plateau and overlooks the lower lands towards the east (what is today megalopolis then Veligosti) the Roman held lands which was the route of invasion.<br /><br />Another interesting story is that of the pretender(Geoffrey de Bruyeres: "ὁ μισὶρ Τζεφρὲς ἐκεῖνος ντὲ Μπριέρες")to the Barony of Karytaina relative of the recently deceased Baron came to unsuccessfully claim the Barony during the Bailiffe of Nicholas of Saint Omer (1287-1289). Wanting to take revenge for this refusal he managed to fool the Castellan of Araklovon,pretending to be sick, and finally take possesion of the Castle. His intention was to sell it to the Romans for hyperpyrs. The victim-castellan (Filokalos his name)send message to M.Arahova to messier ''Simon de Bidon'' who immediately rushed with his 'scortans' to block the kleisourai (entrances). <br /><br />'Ἀφότου γὰρ ἐγένετον τὸ πιάσμα τοῦ Ὀρεοκλόβου,<br />ὁ καστελλᾶνος παρευτύς, Φιλόκαλος τὸ ὄνομά του,<br />στὸν κιβιτᾶνον ἔστειλεν μαντατοφόρους δύο,<br />μισὶρ Σιμοῦν τὸν ἔλεγαν, τὸ ἐπίκλην ντὲ Βιδόνη·<br />ἐκεῖσε εἰς τὴν Ἀράχοβαν, τὴν λέγουσιν μεγάλην,<br />ἦτον μὲ τὸν λαὸν τῶν Σκορτῶν στὴν γαρνιζοῦν ἐτότε.<br />Τὸ πρᾶγμα τοῦ ἀφηγήθησαν καὶ τὴν δημηγερσίαν<br />ὅπου ἔποικε ὁ μισὶρ Ντζεφρές, ἐκεῖνος ντὲ Μπριέρες,<br />ἐπιάσε γὰρ τὸ Ὀρεόκλοβον, θέλει νὰ τὸ πουλήσῃ<br />τῆς κεφαλῆς τοῦ βασιλέως, ἐμήνυσέ του νὰ ἔλθῃ<br />νὰ τοῦ δώσῃ τὰ ὑπέρπυρα, τὸ κάστρον νὰ ἔχῃ ἐπάρει.'<br /><br />Again M.Arahova is described in the vicinity of Araklovon and the river Alfeios. This story also resembles a lot with the one where corcondille manages to occupy St George. <br /><br />I Believe that Corcondille of the Chronicle must have been a Scortan archon.<br /><br />And i also believe that St George must be searched around this region. Antoine Bon and Jean Longnon propose Lykosoura as the castle of St George. (Longnon Jean. Topographie et archéologie de la Morée franque. Journal des savants. 1969, pp. 193-242)<br /><br /><br />YiannisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com